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I recently received a question from a member on one of the forums I frequent. For sake of anonymity, we will call him Marcus.
Marcus Aurelius Wrote:When you say that PWO (while bulking) you eat a lot of carbs and very big PWO meals, would you go as high as say 1000-1200 calorie PWO meal (almost all carbs and very little fat, maybe like a box of cereal) while bulking or only on EOD type setups? I am wondering because while bulking, glycogen stores are mostly full so maybe eating this amount of carbs post-training may be overkill and definitely spill over to fat storage? But maybe it wouldn’t if overall calories for the day are still only +500-600 over maintenance?
Lastly, when you have huge PWO meals when bulking do you still have a small liquid shake right after training and then come home and eat a big meal, or do you just skip the liquid drink? Thank you so much!!
My Original Response:
I just had my entire reply typed out and accidentally closed the window.
I eat 1200-1500kcals post workout regardless of bulking or EODing it.
even when bulking its not going to matter. meal frequency is over rated and even if you did spill over, it will even out.
when I get home I drink a shake, have some cereal, make some potatoes/rice whatever
Now For A Little Explanation
Marcus has a bit of a reputation on the forums for asking a lot of obsessive questions. I find that he tends to get lost in the minutiae quite frequently but his intentions are pure as he is very eager to learn. I can dig that.
I typically will consume a very large post workout meal depending on my goals at the time. It will usually end up being around 200-250g of carbs, 70-80g of protein and 10-15g of fat. So that is anywhere from 1170 calories to 1455 calories(much heavier than the standard 300-500 calorie meals). I do this for a few reasons; one reason being that I am ravenous after my workouts and also because I feel it’s beneficial in terms of recovery and anabolism.
Marcus specifically asked about the whole spillover phenomenon. I am not too worried about it due to digestion rates. The smaller the meal the faster digestion will be and vice versa. Of course there are some variables to consider regarding energy balance. When dieting(being in a negative calorie balance) anything that is stored will be burnt off later anyhow as the body has to pull its energy from the reserves and then some(body fat). While in a caloric surplus the body will use the calories a bit differently as some of the excess energy is going towards glycogen replenishment, recovery, building lean body tissue and of course some of it is being stored as fat. A good rule to stick by when bulking is to make sure you stay within your caloric limits. If you are eating 400-500 over maintenance, make sure thats all you eat. It’s not going to make a difference whether you meet your caloric requirements with 3 meals or 6 meals. People only run into problems when they take the GFH(get f***ing huge) approach and eat everything in sight.
Now many make their post workout shake purely carbs and protein with minimal fat added due to the fear of it being stored as fat and/or slowing digestion. While there is some sense to this, its not that big of a deal. Turns out that digestion is a lot more complex than we tend to think and our meals are overlapping anyway. So much for the popular myth of only being able to use 30-35g protein in one sitting. Alan Aragon touched on digestion and mixing macros(carbs and fats) a bit in his interview with Josh Beaty. The only time I can see some serious spillover happening is during certain situations like a massive carb load(1000+ carbs) when fat is supposed to be kept really low(less than 40-50g). People run into issues when they overeat on fatty foods during the carb load. Lyle McDonald discusses this carb loading approach with great detail in his book, UD2.
Finally, EOD means Every Other Day. I have dieted in the past by having low calorie off days coupled with high calorie training days where I placed a lot of carbs and nutrients around my workouts.
As for Marcus’ Second Question
I typically train for about an hour, then come home and start cooking. While I am waiting on my main starch to cook, I will usually have whey shake plus a large bowl of cereal, pudding, bagels or something similar. Then once my potatoes, rice or whatever else I want is done cooking, I sit down and stuff my fat face.
I have been doing this for more than a year with no negative effects to date. What does your typical post workout meal look like?
mine is 2 cups quinoa or brown rice, black beans lean beef or chicken. with um…. a clif bar, organic fruit, a cup of granola and yogurt.. hmm what else…. ice cream and maybe some jelly beans or chocolate. around 2000 calories. i train fasted tho. thanks JC for liberating me from the small meals dogma.
thanks for the comment, Nic. I hope others are benefiting as you have.
Late to the party on this article….
I am clearly not getting enough carbs post workout which is the best news I have had in a long time. Might explain why I cant get my weight to move upwards.
Do you have any issue with fruit as part of the carb intake PWO? I am currently having 125g of brown rice, chilli and cottage cheese with a smoothie (on the side of course!) made up of apple juice, mixed frozen berries, a banana and 2 scoops of Whey. I know you are a fan of Banana’s but wondered what you made of a a fruit smoothie as a source of carbs….?
I am gonna be eating a lot of toast post workout now….. bring on tomorrow!
fruit is perfectly fine. in fact, it’s what makes ups the majority of my clients carb sources when they are dieting…
but yea – getting your weight to budge is just going to be a matter of eating more anyway. good luck
My post W/O meal is usually a protein shake followed by spaghetti & grd turkey. NOM
haha great. mine is usually whatever is lying around nowadays.
Great, I’m so glad I don’t have to give up my five sandwiches a day diet
Thanks
Joanna
I love eatin’ sammiches!
They are the best !!! so easy to make, versatile and great to-go !!! my absolutely favorite is freshly baked bread with butter! I can never resist it. I guess I’d better stop baking:)
Joanna
better be careful… according to some, bread(made from dough) is unclean!
I don’t worry about ‘unclean’, I’m a dirty girl
If my goal is fat loss and I want to get down to about 15%(I’m about 18% now) would you recommend avoiding carbs for the rest of the day since I’ll be eating so many PWO? I’m trying to be flexible with my diet, I’m wondering if I’m not to flexible though, I love carbs and I could eat bread all day long, I usually have carbs with every meal. I wonder if I’ll be able to lower my BF to 15% while eating so many carbs.
Can you recommend any good reads on the topic?
Joanna
At this point, the only thing that matters is remaining in a deficit. If you have to limit carbs at night to do this, then do it. You could wait until later in the day to eat, drop meal frequency, or focus on fibrous veggies at night for satiety.
I usually have a shake(about 40g protein) with berries and few crackers, after 2 hours I’m hungry again. After my workout I rarely go home so cooking rice and potatoes is not an option for me, after gym I visit the nearest playground with my 3 yo because he gets very bored in the gym daycare. Any suggestions for big on-the-go meal?Will PB sandwich, a banana and a protein shake be enough?maybe some nuts with it? I’d like to try to eat bigger and stop carrying the damn cooler full of snacks with me, I’d rather eat once and stay full for good couple hours and then eat again at home.
Joanna
oh yea, a couple peanut butter sammiches would be just fine. No problem there.
Cool article…I’ve completely thrown out the PWO shake. Rather chew up my calories and save some cash on the supplements. Chicken breast is cheaper than 2 scoops of whey and you can put them on anything.
I made a Boboli pizza last night with chicken, jalapeno, fat free cheese, pineapple, and marinara. I had the rest of the pineapple and 15 delicious dates for dessert. Then 2 hours later I was actually still hungry…deadlifts baby! I had 3 cups of honey nut cheerios. Around 2,300 kcal in a couple of hours. Still sub-maintenance for the day.
Embrace the PWO feasts
awesome stuff. I dunno where your getting your protein but 2 scoops of protein for me is whey cheaper than chicken breasts…
see what I did there?
Agreed on the Chile experiment. ,
chile experiment?
That does sound a lot like what I would consume post workout, besides the tuna. That makes me gag!
Just read this article today..
Typical post-workout meal:
1 tub quark
1 banana
1 large bowl of cereal
huge portion rice/pasta
chicken or tuna
veggies
Actually pretty similar to yours..
keeps me full for the rest of the day and helps me nap post-workout
I discovered that the sugar smacks + butterscotch reminds me of cappuccino for some reason. I am not sure why. I am a lover of all kiddy cereal.
sugar smacks with butterscotch pudding…..ugh. If you’re going to eat sugary cereal, I’d recommend cookie crisp. Love those damned things. Or capt. crunch. OK, going…
@Dawn, cereal and milk is one of my favorite pwo meals, particularly sugar smacks. I have developed a habit of making an entire package of butterscotch pudding and then adding cereal to it. Can you say awesome?
@Yum Yucky: You and every other female. Why don’t you intentionally eat slightly over maintenance a few times per week and see what it does to your energy and performance levels? You could place some extra carbs around your training.
PWO I typically eat about 250 calories, cereal and milk and a fruit. Sometimes a piece of bread and a tablespoon of peanut butter or yogurt over a cup of fruit with cereal crunchies on top. My workouts usually only burn 350-550 calories. It was so much easier to rack up the calories 30 lbs ago.
I like the way you eat. Can I be like you? I’ve been sticking to the “don’t go over your calorie limit” and as a result I’m feeling all sluggish and tired. I cardio/weights for 40 minutes in the morning, walk an hour at lunch, then knocked out by 8pm, the 4 kids are still running around the house, husband is now mad, etc etc. You get me?
Now I’m thinking I need to add more food, especially carbs, and just go by how my body feels instead of getting all crazy and anal about the numbers. “Oh my gosh, I ate 20 calories over my daily limit!” Well…not that crazy but you get the idea.
I agree veggies just make you really really full for not much bang. If you want to be quick just grab some peanuts/nut oil and dump it in a shake. Carbs vs Fat post workout is inconsequential if you aren’t in the surplus/growth/bulk/maintenance range of calories for gaining.
Wow, any of those would work. I always focus on higher carb post workout, but that’s just me. I know you mentioned oats… A huge bowl of oats would do the trick.
Alright, how about jam, honey or peanut butter on toast for post workout?
I’m not a fan of cereal, rice, potatoes or bagels, but I’m sure there’s some more high GI carbs to eat.
Actually, I would drop the veggies post workout. Save them for another meal. I would load up on cereal, rice, potatoes, bagels etc.
In fact I once got hooked on rice n’ beans and ate that post workout for a month straight.
I do have the veges with the steak as my post workout meal, but should I eat the veges first to get the carbs first? I’ll be adding some oats to my workout meal from now on also.
Boy, you need some starch in that post workout meal! Protein is usually whey and whatever protein is in 1kg of potatoes – so about ~20 grams from potatoes. Sometimes I have some cottage cheese as and/or casein from milk in my cereal.
Hmm, my post workout nutrition is:
1. Finish off my protein shake from during the workout
2. Have another protein shake
(mind you my protein shakes only have 26grams protein)
3. Eat steak and vegetables
Perhaps I’m not getting enough carbs immediately after my workout!
I’ll up my carbs and see what happens to me.
What protein do you have with your potatoes and rice?
yea, another reason I do this is because eating to gain can become a chore. So the less frequently I eat, the more I have to cram in with each meal.
Now I know who ate all the pies
…and I thought I ate a lot after a morning row coupled with a pre-workout meal, ~1000kcals, 50-60g protein + CARBS